Hello cargo #15183

steveklabnik · 2014-06-25T20:10:38Z

Built on top of #15181. steveklabnik@e527192 is the only new commit, you may want to review that separately.

I'm not sure if the car analogy is too glib.

huonw · 2014-06-25T23:04:49Z

src/doc/guide.md

+
+## Hello, world!
+
+Now that you have Rust installed, let's write your first Rust program. It's


Just to get some understanding: who is this guide aimed at? People who haven't programmed at all?

As I mentioned previously, no, it is not. However, setup is complex and text is hard. My hundreds of hours teaching has shown a little bit more depth during setup goes a very long way.

This will move faster, now that the next section is actually getting into the language itself.

Ok, cool. I wasn't suggesting you need to change anything, I was just trying to get some understanding of your goals. :)

👍 ❤️

There is such a thing as 'too newbie.'

sinistersnare · 2014-06-25T23:37:52Z

I feel like Rust as a language is not for beginners so we do not need to baby them about what "Hello World" is and such.

sinistersnare · 2014-06-25T23:44:18Z

Also, why are you making different pull reqests or edits/creation of the same file? You can push changes to your branch and this PR will be updated...

steveklabnik · 2014-06-25T23:52:25Z

@sinistersnare we have many users who come from dynamically typed languages, and are basically newbies. Over explaining is always better than under explaining.

And frankly, I'm making different pull requests for two reasons:

I thought reviews from people other than @huonw would come much more quickly, and that the previous ones would be waiting on bors or merged already.
Small iterations lead to better feedback. If this was one 'guide' PR that didn't get merged for months, the discussion would be impossible to follow.

emberian · 2014-06-25T23:55:06Z

I really like the tone and style here, I think this is a good hello world document.

mcpherrinm · 2014-06-25T23:58:05Z

src/doc/guide.md

+This brings me to one other point: some people, and somewhat rightfully so, get
+very upset when we tell you to `curl | sudo sh`. And they should be! Basically,
+when you do this, you are trusting that the good people who maintain Rust
+aren't going to hack your computer and do bad things. That's a good instinct!


You already have to trust Rust -- there's worse things that could happen, like the update.sh getting half run because your internet connection flaked out.

See http://blog.existentialize.com/dont-pipe-to-your-shell.html

IMHO you should download then execute the script in this guide

curl https://www.rust-lang.org/rustup.sh -o rustup.sh sudo sh rustup.sh

Yes, we can argue about this kind of thing forever. I'm just following what we already recommend.

sinistersnare · 2014-06-25T23:59:14Z

I guess if no one else minds the multiple PR thing then OK. I do not agree that Rust is visited by newbies, maybe people without low level experience, but people who understand what "Hello, World" is. Rust is a complex language, and should not be learned by beginners, at least that is how I see it.

mcpherrinm · 2014-06-26T00:00:42Z

src/doc/guide.md

+```
+
+If you're on Windows and not using PowerShell, the `~` may not work. Consult
+the documentation for your shell for more details.


With all the detail above, throwing a "consult the documentation" in here seems sloppy, though that can be cleaned up later (I assume you aren't a Windows user by the focus of this doc)

I am not, and would love guidance here. I know PowerShell is on newer Windows, but I'm not sure which ones.

steveklabnik · 2014-06-26T00:02:39Z

I was wondering about the multiples thing myself. I had planned on pinging the team again tomorrow to talk about it.

huonw · 2014-06-26T00:03:07Z

I do not agree that Rust is visited by newbies, maybe people without low level experience, but people who understand what "Hello, World" is

They may understand what Hello world is in their favourite languages, but not necessarily in a AOT compiled language like Rust, if they come from e.g. Python or Ruby. It seems like a perfectly good way to introduce those ideas and test the set-up to me.

steveklabnik · 2014-06-26T00:13:05Z

And, to be clear, I will lean MORE towards systems people as I explain the language, and link to concepts more. But in the setup, both audiences matter.

ftxqxd · 2014-06-26T00:21:36Z

src/doc/guide.md

+means that you're calling a macro instead of a normal function.
+
+Next, `"Hello, world"` is a **string**. Strings are a surprisingly
+complicated topic in a systems programming language, and this is a **staticly


s/staticly/statically/

Fixed in 00ae648

@huonw

How could I forsake `rustdoc`? 😅 Thanks @huonw.

What's funny about this one is that spellcheck caught it, but for some reason didn't give me the right suggestion, so I assumed that it wasn't in my dictionary. Oh well. Thanks @P1start! ❤️

@chris-morgan

Death to `here`! Thanks @chris-morgan ❤️

@chris-morgan

Thanks @chris-morgan

@chris-morgan

Thanks @chris-morgan ❤️

@chris-morgan

Thanks @chris-morgan ❤️

@chris-morgan

Thanks @chris-morgan ❤️

@chris-morgan

Thanks @chris-morgan

@chris-morgan

Good call, @chris-morgan and @cmr!

@chris-morgan

Thanks @chris-morgan and @P1start! ❤️

steveklabnik · 2014-06-26T19:51:26Z

Rebased now that master has those other branches, and a toooooon of little fix commits.

Do we have anyone who knows Windows who can chime in here on those bits?

@cmr

@cmr rightfully points out that C macros are worse, and share the same name.

stormbrew · 2014-06-26T21:35:27Z

src/doc/guide.md

@@ -159,7 +160,7 @@ Save the file, and then type this into your terminal window:

 ```{bash}
 $ rustc hello_world.rs
-$ ./hello_world  # on Windows, this is ./hello_world.exe


In general, in windows command prompt (cmd.exe and I think powershell as well), the current directory is always in the search path so the ./ is unnecessary. And it'd be a backslash instead of a / if you did need to put path components.

Also, the .exe is part of the filename but it (along with .bat and some other less used extensions) are implicit and don't need to be put on.

So from that directory, in cmd, you should just have to type hello_world.

Does the ./ work though? I've removed the comment, and if both work, we can just leave it the same.

No, the slash would be interpreted very differently in cmd. I think, offhand, it'd treat it as . /hello_world, which is pretty nonsensical since . is a directory.

In the DOS/Windows world, / is the usual character for the start of a command argument, and it's special cased as such so that you can do like dir/s (lack of space intentional) to get a recursive directory listing.

Great, thank you. Fixed in aee263c

@stormbrew

Thank you, @stormbrew!

brson · 2014-06-27T01:04:46Z

Great feedback, all. There's a lot going on here so let's merge and resume in another PR. If you feel some of your feedback hasn't been addressed, please follow up with a PR or in subsequent reviews.

steveklabnik · 2014-06-27T01:18:03Z

Right, since I'm doing this daily, we're going to make an effort to merge early, merge often, and we can keep refining, as needed. 😄

huonw · 2014-06-27T01:51:16Z

(Travis failed.)

steveklabnik · 2014-06-27T01:54:00Z

But only on one version of LLVM?

---- _7 stdout ----

<anon>:7:5: 7:9 error: expected one of `;`, `}` but found `name`

<anon>:7 name = "hello_world"

^~~~

task '_7' failed at 'Box<Any>', /home/travis/build/rust-lang/rust/src/libsyntax/diagnostic.rs:86

It looks like this is in 'docs intro'?

huonw · 2014-06-27T01:54:57Z

src/doc/guide.md


+Put this inside:
+
+```


This needs to be

```ignore

or

```toml

@huonw

Thanks @huonw

huonw · 2014-06-27T01:58:35Z

Re the LLVM versions:

[11:56:12] <huon> acrichto: what's LLVM 3.3 travis thing for? AFAICT it's building no code?
[11:56:29] <acrichto> huon: look at the master builds instead of PRs
[11:56:40] <acrichto> only 3.4 runs with PRs
[11:56:48] <acrichto> merges into master run 3.3 and 3.4

steveklabnik · 2014-06-27T01:59:02Z

@huonw updated.

@brson can I get another r? I'm assuming @bors will fail on that other one.

Built on top of #15181. steveklabnik@e527192 is the only new commit, you may want to review that separately. I'm not sure if the car analogy is too glib.

@brson

This diff will look better once bors takes care of #15183 @brson and I talked about it, and, if I commit this skeleton, I can submit PRs for each portion, without doing this silly "builds on previous PRs" stuff, and it shouldn't cause conflicts. This lays out what I think the guide should cover, and in what order. I haven't picked a cohesive project yet that shows all this off, but I think this progression of concepts is appropriate.

huonw reviewed Jun 25, 2014
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mcpherrinm reviewed Jun 25, 2014
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mcpherrinm reviewed Jun 26, 2014
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ftxqxd reviewed Jun 26, 2014
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steveklabnik added 10 commits June 26, 2014 15:32

all/some

8fd69c4

How could I forsake `rustdoc`? 😅 Thanks @huonw.

staticly -> statically

00ae648

What's funny about this one is that spellcheck caught it, but for some reason didn't give me the right suggestion, so I assumed that it wasn't in my dictionary. Oh well. Thanks @P1start! ❤️

Fix IRC linkage.

08f5334

Death to `here`! Thanks @chris-morgan ❤️

StackOverflow -> Stack Overflow

49a9959

Thanks @chris-morgan

Fixing link to subreddit.

af4a6c3

Thanks @chris-morgan ❤️

Move note about $ up

c73f174

Thanks @chris-morgan ❤️

TIL PATHEXT

efc2d4a

Thanks @chris-morgan ❤️

Clarify which curly is being referred to

8cd9068

Thanks @chris-morgan

Note that macros != templates

546b202

Good call, @chris-morgan and @cmr!

Fix missing word and some grammar

15bcb2f

Thanks @chris-morgan and @P1start! ❤️

C macros, not C++ templates.

e4b8707

@cmr rightfully points out that C macros are worse, and share the same name.

stormbrew reviewed Jun 26, 2014
View reviewed changes

Fix windows run instructions

aee263c

Thank you, @stormbrew!

steveklabnik mentioned this pull request Jun 27, 2014

Guide skeleton #15211

Merged

huonw reviewed Jun 27, 2014
View reviewed changes

src/doc/guide.md

Put this inside:

```

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huonw Jun 27, 2014

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This needs to be

```ignore

or

```toml

Add one more ignore.

6bfbc35

Thanks @huonw

bors added a commit that referenced this pull request Jun 27, 2014

auto merge of #15183 : steveklabnik/rust/hello_cargo, r=huonw

8fe47bc

Built on top of #15181. steveklabnik@e527192 is the only new commit, you may want to review that separately. I'm not sure if the car analogy is too glib.

bors closed this Jun 27, 2014

bors merged commit 6bfbc35 into rust-lang:master Jun 27, 2014

steveklabnik deleted the hello_cargo branch June 27, 2014 09:24


		## Hello, world!

		Now that you have Rust installed, let's write your first Rust program. It's

Hello cargo #15183

Hello cargo #15183

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steveklabnik commented Jun 25, 2014

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sinistersnare commented Jun 25, 2014

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brson commented Jun 27, 2014

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